Full Screen Mode has Gone Haywire

Discussion in 'Parallels Desktop for Mac' started by david, May 19, 2006.

  1. david

    david

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    I hate to say "I told you so"...but er...

    When all the fuss about integrating some of Virtue's desktop switching into Parallels' full screen mode was heating up, I tried to make the point that I think it was probably best to let Virtue handle that, and to let Parallels focus on what it's good at, which is virtualization.

    The first problems started in beta 6, when a booting VM would "steal focus" several times in boot from which ever virtual desktop you were in, rotating the desk over to your VM intermittently. That was just annoying, but still workable. Once you were booted, you could flip between desktops like...butter.

    But in the latest RC I can see my worst fears confirmed, as it seems now impossible to "rotate out" of a full screen parallels VM via Virtue.

    I would like to see full screen mode not interfere with my virtual desktop system as such. I don't know if anyone else is having this problem or if it has already been brought up, but I would love to see it fixed soon!!!
     
  2. joem

    joem

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    1,247
    For me, when I'm in full screen, I have a Windows computer, not a Mac. Touch a key, and I have a Mac again.

    Windows and Mac are different (duh). All these requests to make Windows (or any other guest) look or act like a Mac just make Parallels development more difficult. A guest in a VM should *BE* the guest, and not "sort of" the host.

    I would like to see Parallels running full screen look and act like the guest running on the hardware, not a hybrid. A keystroke later, I'd like to be back to having a Mac with the guest running in a window, and be able to switch between keyboard and mouse acting exactly like Mac hardware when I'm talking to the Mac, and exactly like guest hardware when I'm talking to the guest.

    This *is* virtualization in my view. It seems to me that the Parallels team looks at it that way as well, and I think it's the right approach.

    Windows isn't Mac.
     
  3. lstoll

    lstoll

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    I'm having the same thing here - previously I was using Virtue Desktops to create two virtual desktops, one which was my 'Mac' desktop, and the other my 'Windows' desktop, which had parallels running full screen. Using the switch key combo I was able to switch between a fullscreen mac and pc session, which not only was exceptionally useful, quick, and effective, but impressive as hell to anyone nearby. Since upgrading to the RC, I can make parallels fullscreen in the windows desktop, but as soon as I try to go to the mac desktop, it switches iteself back to the windows one, and parallels goes back to being windowed. This is annoying, because every time I want to go to Windows I have to make it full screen, then to switch back to Mac I have to put up with it messing up... any chance of getting this one fixed up?
     
  4. green_lifesaver

    green_lifesaver

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    I have to agree...

    I have to agree with everybody else on this one. I was using Virtue desktop manager to switch seamlessly from parallels to OS X but like everybody else this function now seems to be broken. For me this function is a deal breaker and couldn't see myself realistically being able to use parallels without it.
     
  5. joem

    joem

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    1,247
    I'm trying to imagine an application that REQUIRES switching between Mac and guest full screen with a single keystroke. When I look at all that being able to simply run Windows apps side by side with Mac apps on the same box and switch in a couple of seconds gives me, I'm hard pressed to even imagine giving all that up and having to get two machines just because it takes me a couple of clicks to switch.

    I'd love to hear an explanation of your application that requires this switching to be successful in order for it to be useful.

    I can see not being able to access a piece of hardware I need as a deal breaker since I'd require two machines (or maybe bootcamp), but simply having to use a couple of extra clicks? My imagination isn't active enough to see it. $50 for software vs $1000 plus for hardware will get me to put up with a fair amount ov inconvenience.
     
  6. david

    david

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    26
    To a web developer this functionality is critical, something that I've already become hugely dependent upon since beta 5 or whenever it was implemented correctly. It save(d) me a TON of time testing CSS in different browser and platform combinations.

    Imagine 4 virtual desktops managed by Virtue. On the first one is the application you are coding in, and a preview using Safari's webkit (safari). On the next desktop is Firefox. On the *next* desktop is a full screen VM running WinXP + IE6, and on the last desktop is a full screen VM running Win2000 + IE5.5. Using Virtue I used to be able to make a change, and then with a stroke of the key instantly hop into any of these environments - my mouse was automagically captured by which ever VM flipped into view. I could refresh a webpage and test a layout instantly. And in a flick of the keyboard return to the code in OS X. Or Firefox.

    You could even cmd+tab out if I remember correctly, getting the application pager overlay of OS X - this has also been disabled, which I think is a step backwards. The mere sight of an XP desktop with a OS X app switcher in the foreground was enough to put a smile on my face.

    Anyway, ask any web designer or developer if they will use this feature, and I'm sure the overwhelming response would be "yes". When this feature was introduced a few short weeks ago I was seeing immediate productivity gains. It was a panacea for web development, to put it mildly.

    But even casual users could benefit from it I would think...which begs the question. Now that I've explained why the previous way of handling full screen was so useful in the context of web development, maybe some one can explain to me what's useful about the new way? What is the upside to this new method?

    I am busy looking for a copy of beta 6, anyone have one?
     
  7. Andrew @ Parallels

    Andrew @ Parallels Parallels Developers

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    The broken integration with Virtue is our top priority now. Please be patient - we will fix it!
     
  8. iobe

    iobe

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    Is there any consideration to implementing a "Hide" key, for those who don't want to deal with Virtue, but still need to switch instantly between the two environments?

    It worked in beta 6, Apple-H.
     
  9. david

    david

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    26
    OK I'll relax now :) Thanks Andrew.

    iobe, it seems like the latest RC kind of detached itself from the low level OS X controls, like command tab, apple-h, etc... I am sure that restoring those controls would be an improvement, and I hope that's the plan anyway. cmd+tab, Apple-h, etc...
     
  10. Andrew @ Parallels

    Andrew @ Parallels Parallels Developers

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    1,507
    Apple-H also will be back (you will be able to customize it behaviour in Parallels settings).
     
  11. chrismasto

    chrismasto

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    I don't know why you guys are focusing just on "integration with Virtue", instead of the underlying problem. If you just stopped trying to work around things and instead acted like a normal full-screen window without all the keyboard-stealing and always-on-top stuff, it would work just fine with or without Virtue! I'm getting really worried that with all the hacks upon hacks for a couple of vocal Virtue users, you're going to make the final product even less usable for those of us who just want to run Parallels as a regular application on a regular computer with no virtual desktops, 3D switching, or other workarounds for problems that shouldn't exist in the first place.

    At least please (I'm beggin' ya here) add a switch to turn off the always-on-top and stealing of cmd-tab and other OS X keys.

    I know the last 10% takes 90% of the work.. these issues are only a sign that the product is almost done.
     
  12. david

    david

    Messages:
    26
    I don't think anyone wants integration with Virtue, in fact if you read my first post you can see I was kind of arguing against that path and more in favor of letting each application do what they are good at. Having said that, I would like Parallels to "play nice" with Virtue. This is exactly the same thing you are asking for, incidentally. In other words, if our cmd+tab was working, then so would the hotkey commands I send to Virtue.

    As for your comments joem, without meaning any disrespect I am not sure I understand where you are going with that. Your point about "hybrids" and "A guest in a VM should *BE* the guest, and not 'sort of' the host." is a little confusing to me. I think you are saying that you don't want to be able to use things like cmd+tab for app switching in OS X when you are running a full screen Windows VM. Yet you do want to be able to jump between the two environments with a keystroke...which is itself an acknowledgment of "host privilege" if you will. So, I'm sure you have good point but I didn't quite pick up on it.

    I certainly like you point that "Windows isn't mac", that's spot on. But there are aspects of being a host that should be given precedence. One of them is the ability to kill full screen with a keystroke. Another might be the ability to open "force quit"...in case you need to force quit your VM when running full screen. Task manager won't help much there.

    I think everyone is after the same thing more or less. In any case, it seems like Parallels has acknowledged the problem and is moving to fix it. Looking forward to RC2
     
  13. green_lifesaver

    green_lifesaver

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    Thanks Andrew, it's good to know you guys are on top of this! I'll be looking forward to RC2
     
  14. joem

    joem

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    1,247
    What I mean is that I'd like to dedicate exactly one, user selectable, key combination to switch out of the guest environment, and have everything else passed to the guest, with possible user selected key mapping due to differences between the host keyboard and whatever the guest was designed for. When I type that combination, I want the guest in a window just like any other host application (or minimized) and if the guest is still visible, then when the mouse pointer (good idea Parallels) is in the guest window, everything except the magic key combo is passed to the guest (and I mean everything), and when the pointer is outside the guest window, nothing should be passed to the guest and the host mappings should rule.

    This works beautifully with a VNC client on he Mac and a Windows host so I know it's possible. In fact if anyone wants to know how I think it *should* work, look at "Chicken of the VNC". It's perfect. The default switching key combo is ctrl-option-apple-tilde wich is unlikely to be needed for anything else in either Windows or Mac.

    The VNC window on the Mac is as close to the size of the host screen as the physical Mac screen allows, and larger host screens scroll automatically as the pointer approaches the physical screen edge. If that mode were available, I'd select it, although I'd probably set a custom guest resolution to match my physical screen unless I was testing something where screen size mattered.
     
  15. iobe

    iobe

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    Ok, great :D
     
  16. zyprexa

    zyprexa

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    I agree with david and disagree with joem.

    I don't do web development, but I still prefer the previous method of handling screen switches...namely having virtue and parallels as two separate applications.

    In fact, I even retro'd parallels back from RC1 to the previous beta because I find the new way dysfunctional.

    I think Parallels should focus on the VM, and keep Virtue as a separate application (perhaps bundled with Desktop/Workstation and integrated carefully so that parallels plays nicely with it).

    But I definitely prefer having the choice of desktop managment with other windows that was available previously.

    Having Command-Tab application switching was awesome for getting in and out of VM and other OS X apps. That feature should definitely remain in the final release.

    one point that joem makes that I do agree with is having a "scrolling window" as in chicken of the vnc.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2006

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