Mac OSX as a guest OS

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by keirnna, Sep 20, 2006.

  1. keirnna

    keirnna

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    I want to be able to run a OS X guest OS. This would be useful when checking software compatability against different versions of Mac OS X.
     
  2. macman2

    macman2

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    Yes that would be great. Then testing would be very simple. Please ad this.
     
  3. keirnna

    keirnna

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    Parallels should be able to licence a TPM emulator or something to allow us to legally run Mac OS X as both a guest and a host OS. You can do this with ever other piece of hardware emulation software and OS other than with Mac.
     
  4. constant

    constant

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    Over at Apple there is a large amount of idealism. Very difficult to overcome.
    .
     
  5. macman2

    macman2

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    MacOSX Guest os

    How could apple stop you from allowing parallels to run osx as a guest os?
    It would seem to me that if it will run free bsd, We would be ale to run osx multiple times.:p
    This would be so great for software testing. I just would like to know if this is ever going to happen
    or do I need to look into vm were, They have a Macosx soultion that will be out soon.
     
  6. constant

    constant

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    OS X is NOT bsd. It is a hacked fork of bsd. Hacked in a way as to fit the Apple ideal. No go as guest.

    As for other VM solutions, none of them have any prospect of running OS X as a guest. Long after Parallels has achieved OS X host support, this is what others are now possibly getting close to.
    .
     
  7. macman2

    macman2

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    Yes I know osx is not bsd, But its close. When I get some time I may try and come up with a way to do it, You have laid the ground work, Just need to make a custom ISO to install MacOSX, If I don't
    do it I am sure someone smarter then I am will do it, Only a matter of time, Would just be easier if it was supported out of the box. My time is limited with a wife and two kids, And this will save tons
    of time once it can be done.
     
  8. constant

    constant

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    Seems like it could be done, until the full extent of Apple's hacking comes to light. It would take one very knowledgeable person a vast amount of time to overcome.

    Since I too have a wife and two kids, I know you don't have the time. ;)
    .
     
  9. jbardi

    jbardi

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    You are confused!

    Here is how it breaks down... if you are unaware, OS X utilizes TPM (Trusted Platform Module) built into the operating system that checks against a chip on the motherboard and/or CPU to ensure you are running it on a legitimate Apple computer with Apple hardware.

    Intel OS X does not use a BIOS, like Windows does. Instead it uses EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface). Therefore you can only run OS X on a legitimate motherboard from Intel manufactured for Apple with EFI support.

    Parallels, like VMware, uses a BIOS to boot the guest operating system in the virtual environment, and the ONLY copy of OS X that can run from a BIOS is the hacked version of 10.4.3 - 10.4.8 spread all over the Internet through torrent sites.

    Therefore, Parallels (a legitimate company) is not going to OFFICIALLY add support for an operating system that can only be run on Paralles if it is a hacked copy. You see, that would basically be promoting the circumventing of copy protection, as everyone would know the support was not in place to install a legitimate copy of OS X, which can only be installed on official apple hardware, not emulated hardware.

    Apple is not about to give a 3rd party access to its security key or any other means for emulating their TPM checks, as the newest version of 10.4.8 now uses different security keys than the ones previously cracked by the hackers. If they were to do this, Parallels and VMware could easily build this support into the Windows versions of their software (Paralles Workstation and VMware Workstation) to allow the use of legitimate, unaltered copies of OS X to be installed everywhere, thus bypassing the need to purchase Apple Hardware. They would be slitting their own throat... keep in mind, unlike Microsoft, Apple is a hardware company, first and foremost.

    You claim you are going to TRY to get it to work on your own? Do you realize how hard it was for those hackers to alter the Mach kernel of OS X in order to bypass TPM and EFI? They are hardcore coders, so unless you know how to decompile and patch the Mach kernel and sources of OS X, good luck trying to get it to run. You can't even call it a side-by-side progression of BSD, due to the mass forked changes between the two.

    Now, it is very possible that the current hacked versions of OS X may install on parallels right now at its current release by selecing BSD or Linux from the drop down for guest OS type, however, you won't ever see Parallels as a company releasing direct support for OS X.

    On a final note, with my own experiences installing a hacked copy of OS X on many vanilla PC's, I doubt the virtual drivers for Paralles will allow OS X to properly recognize the virtual hardware references, due to the narrow range of hardware support built into OS X :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2006
  10. joem

    joem

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    Of course, the real solution to this problem is to convince apple to allow virtual copes of OSX on Apple hardware. Virtual machines have advantages, and Apple might, some day, see it as in their interest o allow it -- perhaps when running many virtual machines on a box becomes increasingly common in some environments such as web servers.

    Going in the back door by hacking the software is one way to make it work, but walking up to the front door and ringing the bell might work too.
     
  11. dan20164

    dan20164

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    One obvious use for this is to allow OS X driver/kernel extension development and debugging on a vm. Much easier to recover if you toast a vm kernel rather than that of the real host. I realize alternate boot devices can solve this, but switching to/from the vm does not require a machine reboot as does switching to an alternate boot device.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2006
  12. >>> Message has been deleted by the user <<<
     
  13. dan20164

    dan20164

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    We get around the licensing issue with a OS X Family Pack would we not ?
     
  14. constant

    constant

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    That's Correct. We would not.
    .
     
  15. tomservo291

    tomservo291

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    It's even simpler then you all think.

    Sure, its possible to emulate a TPM chip (not saying it would be easy ,or wouldn't be easy; but it can be done.) You could also emulate all of the specific hardware that OS X looks for. But, as for a company like Parallels, they cannot.

    If you actually read apples licensing for OS X, it clearly states that it is not legal to run on non-apple hardware. It is illegal to force OS X to run on anything but non-apple hardware. Yes, you say it might be running in a VM on apple hardware, but if they allow that; that opens up a whole new world that their legal department probably doesnt want any headaches. This could introduce new loopholes into their license that allows people to find legal ways to run OS X on non-apple hardware.

    Short and sweet, Apple will continually update their license for OS X with the changing world to make sure it is illegal to run it on non-apple hardware.

    I'm not saying it cant be done, im saying it will always be illegal. If some hackers want to throw together some virtualization software that no one can be held accountable for; then that would be great. But that would have to be one hell of a joint effort.
     
  16. MacManX

    MacManX

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    Contrary to popular belief, OS X does not require TPM. The Core 2-based MBPs don't even have a TPM chip.
     
  17. tomservo291

    tomservo291

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    Even so, the point is not that it cannot be done. OSx86 project etc have shown that t can be done with very specific (and usually inexpensive) hardware.

    The problem is a company like Parallels cannot do it. They certainly have the ability if they wish, but Apple legal would have something to say about that. Specifically until Parallels has been bled dry and all of the developers become homeless.
     
  18. Constantine

    Constantine

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    So... no solution? No way OSX can run under Parallels' XP Version?
     
  19. Olivier

    Olivier Kilo Poster

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    Thanks God, no.
     

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