Repeated Windows Update Requests

Discussion in 'Parallels Desktop for Mac' started by jesschoen, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. jesschoen

    jesschoen Bit Poster

    Messages:
    45
    About once per day, I am being requested to install 2 Windows updates in Parallels. They are always the same ones (KB890859 and KB931784). This repeated request to install updates does not occur in Boot Camp--only in Parallels. Does anyone know how to eliminate this?

    Thanks for any help.

    James
     
  2. Eru Ithildur

    Eru Ithildur

    Messages:
    1,954
    I saw on a thread on this... Let me know if you can find it by searching... I'll look tomorrow if you can't.
     
  3. darkone

    darkone

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    804
  4. Eru Ithildur

    Eru Ithildur

    Messages:
    1,954
    Thanks, darkone. I've been needing to Bookmark those.
     
  5. warnergt

    warnergt Bit Poster

    Messages:
    49
    I think it is a problem with Parallels

    I, too, have this much reported problem with Windows Security updates KB931784, KB890859 and KB929338. They continually ask to be reinstalled.

    I reported this problem to Parallels support. They say it is a Windows problem and, therefore, cannot help. I dug a little deeper and found some more information which sheds a little more light on what is going on. I tend to believe that this is indeed a Parallels problem. You be the judge. Here is what I did and found.
    This is with a Windows XP Pro SP2 system.

    1) Windows Update said I needed Security Update KB929338.
    Took a look on the Microsoft website to see what this update installs:
    Ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3051 (among other files)
    Took a look to see what was in my C:\Windows\system32 folder:
    ntkrnlpa.exe Vesion: 5.1.2600.2180

    So far, this makes sense. Windows wants to give me newer files than what I have.

    File after installation but before reboot:
    ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3051

    The update appears to have correctly updated my file.

    2) I run Windows update again to see if I need any more updates. Parallels crashes unexpectedly (remember this; I will get back to this point). I restart Parallels and restart Windows and again check the file version:
    ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3051

    The updated file is still present. This is what we expected.

    3) I run Windows update again to see if I need any more updates.
    It says I need security update KB931784.
    Took a look on the Microsoft website to see what this update installs:
    Ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093 (among other files)
    Ntoskrnl.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093
    Took a look to see what was in my C:\Windows\system32 folder:
    Ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3051
    Ntoskrnl.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3051

    Again, this makes sense. Windows wants to give me newer files than what I have.

    Files after installation but before reboot:
    Ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093
    Ntoskrnl.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093

    The update appears to have correctly updated my files.

    Files after rebooting Windows (but not exiting Parallels):
    Ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093
    Ntoskrnl.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093

    My updated files are still there. All is OK.

    4) I shut down Windows, exit Parallels, restart Parallels and restart Windows.
    Let's take a look at my files:
    ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.2180
    Ntoskrnl.exe Version: 5.1.2600.2180


    MY FILES HAVE REVERTED TO OLD VERSIONS!!!
    It is no wonder that Windows wants to update them again.

    Here is my hypothesis. This part is strictly speculation. I'll leave it to others to prove or disprove this.
    I suspect that Parallels replaces certain files in Windows before it boots. When Parallels exits, it restores the old files. Restoring these files can overwrite updated files with the old files.
    The reason I suspect this is that, when Parallels crashed and I restarted and rebooted, the newer files were still present. When Parallels exited gracefully and I restarted and rebooted, the old files somehow reappeared.

    Whether my hypothesis is correct or not, this is a major problem. The Parallels guys need to address this. I hope this information sheds some light on the problem one way or another.
     
  6. unused_user_name

    unused_user_name

    Messages:
    495

    Look into a subsystem called "Windows File Protection". There is a hidden directory under \system32\ that holds backups. Make sure that your update is updating both the update AND the backup.

    Also, preform the update in safe mode if you can... Reading information out of the backup directory in normal mode does not always do what one would think...
     
  7. warnergt

    warnergt Bit Poster

    Messages:
    49
    I can't find any "Windows File Protection" but I did find those files in C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllcache
    This is what I found:
    Ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093
    Ntoskrnl.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093

    So, the files in this dllcache directory are the correct, updated files.
    However, the files in C:\WINDOWS\system32 are old versions.
     
  8. ewinemiller

    ewinemiller

    Messages:
    4
    I have the same symptom but both the system32 version and the dllcache versions for those files are 5.1.2600.3093 so I'm not sure that's the file that is getting replaced. I did notice that the version in system32 has an extra underscore in the name so perhaps it is the issue.

    I have repeatedly reported the problem to Parallels support, but the responses I got showed they either didn't even read the support ticket or they are completely ignorant of stuff that anybody doing tech support for windows related things should know. I got great replies such as

    "Please go to Configuration Editor -> CD/DVD-ROM -> check Use CD/DVD-ROM
    Drive if it isn't checked -> OK -> start Windows -> maybe it will help. "

    "It is well-know problem with activation some software on VM from Boot
    Camp partition.
    We working hard on it, but now we only advise to address to company you
    purchased software and explain, that you use the same computer with it. "

    and finally

    "Please explain me what is KB890859?"

    I finally gave up. If someone figures out what is going on and a solution, I'd love to hear it. Right now I either deal with the long shutdown time while it applies the patch, or the next time I boot it applies the patch anyways and then forces a reboot.
     
  9. darkone

    darkone

    Messages:
    804
    doing a google will show you that these updates repeatedly requiring install in indeed a windows problem. Lots of people have had this problem who arent running parallels.
     
  10. warnergt

    warnergt Bit Poster

    Messages:
    49
    darkone:

    If you do a Google on this update failing to install, the top items returned are in reference to Parallels.

    I disagree that this is a Windows problem. Your response sounds like a cop-out to me. Do you work for Parallels?
     
  11. Eru Ithildur

    Eru Ithildur

    Messages:
    1,954
    Well, since Parallels shows up the hardware in the same way for each install, it seems that the way Parallels virtualizes things is the way that gets the loop. And thus, since it is the same on every single one, all Parallels users are hit.

    It IS an issue outside of Parallels, I have had this on another computer (it's long fixed so I don't remember the manufacturer).
     
  12. darkone

    darkone

    Messages:
    804

    no i dont work for parallels... this has been discussed severla times on here, i thought I would just try to help you out.. no need to get smart with me..

    heres a few examples of what i mean..

    Searching for the phrases "KB890859" and repeatedly, does bring up the parallels link as the first one.. but only the first link..


    http://www.certificationchat.com/archive/index.php?t-47315.html

    that appears to show the same problem NOT using parallels..

    and again

    http://gabriel.lozano-moran.name/blog/PermaLink,guid,a188ee2d-fc12-4166-907d-0baf8b69572d.aspx






    this appears to show the other update doing the same thing.. again.. not on parallels...
    http://www.microsoft.com/communitie...&tid=07bcd14c-ba22-4715-97ef-0a91c2e594e2&p=1

    and again..

    http://forum.worldstart.com/showthread.php?t=107821

    hmm look.. not using Parallels.. so maybe it really is a windows problem !?!?!?!

    I could post more if you need more evidence that this exists outside of Parallels....
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
  13. warnergt

    warnergt Bit Poster

    Messages:
    49
    It's a Parallels problem

    I don't deny that similar problems have been seen among 500 million Windows users but those do not seem nearly as frequent as seen by Parallels users. Also, none of the fixes that worked for regular Windows users fix the problem with Parallels.

    I have more information on this problem and, again, it points to Parallels.

    I booted my Windows XP Pro hard drive with boot camp. I checked the versions of the problematic files in the C:\Windows\system32 folder:

    Files seen from within Bootcamp:
    Ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093
    Ntoskrnl.exe Version: 5.1.2600.3093

    These are the latest versions of these files. These are the expected files.

    Then, I shut down, rebooted Mac OS X, restarted the same Windows XP Pro hard drive with Parallels.

    Here are the files I found:
    ntkrnlpa.exe Version: 5.1.2600.2180
    Ntoskrnl.exe Version: 5.1.2600.2180


    After booting in Parallels, my up to date files have been replaced with older versions.
    This is why Windows Update wants to reinstall the updates. It recognizes that I no longer have the latest files.

    I have to conclude that Parallels is swapping the files when it boots up. My guess it is replacing files with its own modified versions to intercept specific Windows calls. Unfortunately, the modified version are old versions. This problem will not go away until the Parallels team catches up with the latest Windows file versions.
     
  14. warnergt

    warnergt Bit Poster

    Messages:
    49
  15. warnergt

    warnergt Bit Poster

    Messages:
    49
  16. Mike@Parallels

    Mike@Parallels

    Messages:
    112
    Hello,

    We are aware of problem with these updates in current version of
    Parallels Desktop. Next release should solve this issue.

    Best regards,
    Mike
     
  17. ibsscott

    ibsscott

    Messages:
    8
    Thank goodness. It's driving me crazy asking to reinstall every day. Boot Camp never seems to need to reload these updates, only Parallels.
     
  18. Teggles

    Teggles

    Messages:
    4
    thank GOD

    This is drving me insane, I formatted TWICE and it kept coming back!
     
  19. bcjenkins

    bcjenkins

    Messages:
    23
    Mike,

    When will the next version be out?

    TIA
     
  20. Mike@Parallels

    Mike@Parallels

    Messages:
    112
    I dont have such information at the moment
     

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