OS X as guest OS?

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thenewbf

Bit poster
I was just wondering if it would be possible to have another copy of OS X running as the guest OS in Parallels. Although it would be a bit redundant, it would be good for things like opening untrusted files to see if they were malicious or not, or to try testing custom-built programs out in case it does any damage to the OS. Besides, wouldn't it technically be easier to support than any other OS?
 
I think it would be cool.

I think however that the emulation provided by Parallels for various pieces of hardware look like PC hardware rather than Mac HW. So I don't think it would install or run. Parallels would have to support it as an optional platform I think.
 
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It's all about the Apple licensing and platform straight jacket. Those freedom loving people at Apple just wont allow it.

Sorry for the gibe, but it's true.
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Absolutely correct. I hadn't considered the platform straightjacket deal. But even if some how one got around that... I think the VM setup by Parallels is very PC like. I doubt OS X would even be able to locate and install drivers for them. Just a guess.
 
constant said:
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It's all about the Apple licensing and platform straight jacket. Those freedom loving people at Apple just wont allow it.
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Click to expand...

Its something that Apple ought to consider - for one thing, the ability to run virtual machines is invaluable for software developers trying to test across operating system versions. Its also pretty important for the server market. Currently, its something you can do with Windows and Linux but not with OSX - not a good selling point for Apple.

AFAIK the three main issues are
  1. OSX requires EFI firmware instead of BIOS - but EFI is a standard and I'm sure its somewhere on the roadmap for virtualisation software
  2. I think Macs have an ID chip that proves to OSX that they are a Mac - but this also uses a standard interface. Presumably VM software could emulate this and pass on challenges to the real chip - still ensuring that the physical hardware was a kosher Mac.
  3. It would be really, really stupid for Parallels or VMWare to try and do this without first sorting out an agreement with Apple.
 
Actually supporting OS X would be harder, not easier. Basically, the standard hardware that Parallels currently emulates is not supported by OS X. For OS X, you'd need at least to have an Intel 945 chipset with EFI and a TPM chip being virtualized.

It would be neat, but the chances of it happening aren't too good.

Another virtualization program had support for the OS X that shipped on the Intel Dev kit machines (by chance more than design, and requiring a lot of modifications to OS X).
 
Sharkus said:
For my needs, and I work for a software developer, I would need to emulate 10.2.8 and 10.3.9, 10.4.x and their respective OS X Server versions. That's just OS X. Our products also support pre OS X systems, so I'd need to emulate, at the very least Mac OS 9.2.2 (specs of products say 7.5.5 thru 9.2.2, but I don't think any of our clients are running anything less than 9.2.2. these days).
Click to expand...
Just because VMs will not solve all your testing woes at a stroke doesn't mean that they are not useful. You're quite right, though, that the Mac's history of fundamental architecture changes limits the usefulness of virtual testing somewhat c.f. Wintel. However, 10.5 for Intel is coming down the pike - and VMs are great for things like testing installations on a "virgin" system (just duplicate the hard disc image and delete the deflowered copy when you've done), testing web pages on different browser versions, and investigating "DLL Hell" situations (which certainly occur on OSX when porting *nix software).

If you look at the "Workstation" product from a Certain Other Purveyor of Virtualisation Products you'll notice that its mainly targetted at developers. It also has developer-friendly tricks like VM snapshots. (Its also 3x the price of Parallels and not out yet for Mac so I'm not whinging!) So, testing and development are a big market for VMs.
 
I never ment to imply I didn't like the idea. I wish it worked too. Even if we had to say ok... I can't emulate back behind 10.4.4 and had to look at emulating forward from this point that would be hot.

As a developer of Windows based biomedical software I used to use virtual PC on a PC to create fresh clean virtual environments to test installers and trial run stuff. Where it falls down is in my business I need access to hardware and you just can't do a perfect job of that in a VM.

Our products often use embedded PCs with PC104+ boards on them. Many are custom and developed in house. So a VM just can't reach that. But we can emulate them in a "demo" mode in software which I do often.

M
 
Didn't Steve Jobs say at WWDC '05 that OS X has been running on Intel since it's inception? And if so, why couldn't you do the same? (remember, pirated 'OSx86' copies were running on Intel chips before Intel Macs even came out...)
 
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One can choose to ignore what others say on forums, and try things for themselves.

Give it a go, and let us know how you get on.
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A group released a long time ago (when the whole intel on mac thing started) a vmware image with MacOSx installed on it .. it was slow .. but it did work ...

Here the How To

Just in case it gets deleted ... use google ;)
 
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